December 25, 2008
December 7, 2008
The Silmarillion and a Pre-redemption World
I received an interesting comment from a reader on my last post:
"I have just one little criticism; for Tolkien's about to be about redemption is a nice thought but I don't think thats what it is about. Tolkien's writings are more about the "deeper reality". He tries (and very effectively) to portray the battle of the spiritual world though fiction. The LOTR is a perfect example of how he illustrates the "deeper reality" through his "fictional" writing. But in fact his "fiction" is closer to reality than books that are about "reality." The idea that his writing is about redemption is thoughtful and hopeful, but not really logical."
Thanks for sharing your thoughts, Quin. I do believe that Tolkien meant to portray the battle of the spiritual world though fiction, and that he did it very well. That is one of the reasons that I love his books. But I also think that Tolkien meant his fictional world, in which, it must be noted, he purposefully created numerous parallels to the 'real state of things,' to be a pre-redemption world, as I think is made quite plain by the quote that I posted and by other similar allusions. And I will take the liberty of pointing out that I did back up my opinion with a logical quote, whereas you did not support your opinion with any evidence.
I will note that Tolkien made it very clear that he was not trying to write an allegory. To Milton Waldman he writes, "I dislike Allegory - the conscious and intentional allegory - yet any attempt to explain the purport of myth or fairytale must use allegorical language." Tolkien's works were not allegories, and therefore can not be expected to carry a specific meaning or symbolism for everything.
Nevertheless, Tolkien does not try to deny that certain aspects of his book represented and were meant to represent, if indirectly, certain Biblical truths. In his letter to Milton Waldman he makes it quite clear that the Ainulandile and the Valaquenta are a fictional picture of the Creation of the World and the Fall of the Evil One. The End of the First Age was the story of the fall of the Elves, who, are the central characters in the Silmarillion.
Tolkien goes on to say:
"In the cosmogony there is a Fall: a fall of Angels we should say. Though quite different in form, of course, to that of Christian myth. These tales are ‘new’, they are not directly derived from other myths and legends, but they must inevitably contain a large measure of ancient wide-spread motives or elements. After all, I believe that legends and myths are largely made of ‘truth’, and indeed present aspects of it that can only be received in this mode; and long ago certain truths and modes of this kind were discovered and must always reappear. There cannot be any ‘story’ without a fall - all stories are ultimately about the fall - at least not for human minds as we know them and have them."
Towards the End of the Second Age, we observe that the Fall of Numenor, or the Fall of Men, is in all probablity another allusion to the Fall in the Garden of Eden. There are similar allusions throughout his books, such as the quote I posted, and, while they can certainly not be pinned down as allegory, I think that their original sources can be tracked. What I am trying to say is that I think that it is sufficiently obvious to both of us that the Fall of the Elves and Men in the Silmarillion was a fictional allusion to the Fall of Adam, and thus, the entire race of 'real' men. It is equally obvious, to me at least, that Finrod's words to Andreth were a fictional allusion to the future coming of Christ. Assuming that that supposition is correct, it is only logical to conclude that Tolkien meant his fictional world to be pre-redemption. As I said in my comments on the quote from Morgoth's Ring, I posted that quote because I think it may be helpful in realizing that Tolkien had purposefully created a pre-redemption world, and because it was not a key theme in his books does not mean that he was trying to avoid it.
As an afterthought, I do encourage Tolkien fans to read his letter to Milton Waldman. It is very interesting and offers valuable insights into the motives behind Tolkien's works, and the nature of those works.
"I have just one little criticism; for Tolkien's about to be about redemption is a nice thought but I don't think thats what it is about. Tolkien's writings are more about the "deeper reality". He tries (and very effectively) to portray the battle of the spiritual world though fiction. The LOTR is a perfect example of how he illustrates the "deeper reality" through his "fictional" writing. But in fact his "fiction" is closer to reality than books that are about "reality." The idea that his writing is about redemption is thoughtful and hopeful, but not really logical."
Thanks for sharing your thoughts, Quin. I do believe that Tolkien meant to portray the battle of the spiritual world though fiction, and that he did it very well. That is one of the reasons that I love his books. But I also think that Tolkien meant his fictional world, in which, it must be noted, he purposefully created numerous parallels to the 'real state of things,' to be a pre-redemption world, as I think is made quite plain by the quote that I posted and by other similar allusions. And I will take the liberty of pointing out that I did back up my opinion with a logical quote, whereas you did not support your opinion with any evidence.
I will note that Tolkien made it very clear that he was not trying to write an allegory. To Milton Waldman he writes, "I dislike Allegory - the conscious and intentional allegory - yet any attempt to explain the purport of myth or fairytale must use allegorical language." Tolkien's works were not allegories, and therefore can not be expected to carry a specific meaning or symbolism for everything.
Nevertheless, Tolkien does not try to deny that certain aspects of his book represented and were meant to represent, if indirectly, certain Biblical truths. In his letter to Milton Waldman he makes it quite clear that the Ainulandile and the Valaquenta are a fictional picture of the Creation of the World and the Fall of the Evil One. The End of the First Age was the story of the fall of the Elves, who, are the central characters in the Silmarillion.
Tolkien goes on to say:
"In the cosmogony there is a Fall: a fall of Angels we should say. Though quite different in form, of course, to that of Christian myth. These tales are ‘new’, they are not directly derived from other myths and legends, but they must inevitably contain a large measure of ancient wide-spread motives or elements. After all, I believe that legends and myths are largely made of ‘truth’, and indeed present aspects of it that can only be received in this mode; and long ago certain truths and modes of this kind were discovered and must always reappear. There cannot be any ‘story’ without a fall - all stories are ultimately about the fall - at least not for human minds as we know them and have them."
Towards the End of the Second Age, we observe that the Fall of Numenor, or the Fall of Men, is in all probablity another allusion to the Fall in the Garden of Eden. There are similar allusions throughout his books, such as the quote I posted, and, while they can certainly not be pinned down as allegory, I think that their original sources can be tracked. What I am trying to say is that I think that it is sufficiently obvious to both of us that the Fall of the Elves and Men in the Silmarillion was a fictional allusion to the Fall of Adam, and thus, the entire race of 'real' men. It is equally obvious, to me at least, that Finrod's words to Andreth were a fictional allusion to the future coming of Christ. Assuming that that supposition is correct, it is only logical to conclude that Tolkien meant his fictional world to be pre-redemption. As I said in my comments on the quote from Morgoth's Ring, I posted that quote because I think it may be helpful in realizing that Tolkien had purposefully created a pre-redemption world, and because it was not a key theme in his books does not mean that he was trying to avoid it.
As an afterthought, I do encourage Tolkien fans to read his letter to Milton Waldman. It is very interesting and offers valuable insights into the motives behind Tolkien's works, and the nature of those works.
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